March 27, 2013
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Convince Me on Amnesty
I want the liberals to convince me why I should support amnesty for illegal aliens. Build a case, I know you probably cannot, but I want to see you try anyways. I have seen the politicians try to produce a variety of blundering arguments, ranging from thinking they can get more votes to wanting to be nice to people. None of which are valid arguments. So let me hear it from you loyal Democrat voters.
Here is my situation: I’m trying to bring my fiance over here from India on a fiance visa, which is the quickest LEGAL way to go for my type of situation. H1 and H4 visas have a quicker processing time but they don’t apply in our case. Now, according to the USCIS website six months is the normal waiting period, but, it turns out that they are actually taking eight months in order to actually REVIEW cases.Now, as a 31 year old virgin I have been waiting for some time already, so waiting another three or four months isn’t a big deal for me right? But I still have to wait. So…Why do the illegal aliens, who are breaking our laws, get preferential treatment over us? Why should I welcome those people into my country as citizens, or at all? I want you guys to try to convince me. Ready… GO!I know I tagged certain people, but if any other liberals are passing through please feel free to respond to this.
Comments (41)
@ImNotUglyIJustNeedLove - Oh hold on! Um… Um…. uh… I got it! Because the land was stolen from Native Americans in the first place, borders are bad, and… the Democrat party needs more voters.
If you weren’t convinced by their arguments for dealing with the deficit, gay marriage, federal welfare and Iraq, I doubt whether you’ll never be convinced by their arguments for amnesty:
1. Blame Bush
2. It feels good
3. Support it or else you’re a racist, bigot homophobe
4. Who are we to judge?
5. Who are we to impose our values on others?
6. It’s for the children
7. The rich will pay for it
Help me out!
Have I missed anything?
@Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex - OMG! I forgot the damned Native Americans!
@ImNotUglyIJustNeedLove - That’s because you’re racist, and probably sexist as well. You need to be re-educated. You need to go watch CNN and listen to Katy Perry until your frontal lobe atrophies a little.
Oh yes, I thought of another reason, “cultural enrichment.” Because having a bunch of semi-literate uneducated non-English speakers will make us more cultured as a whole, bringing all of us up.
@ImNotUglyIJustNeedLove - But I really do want the liberals to answer me. They are always saying that I should accept this and that I’m racist for not accepting, but they have yet to give me any sort of actual reason.
@Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex - I can really relate. As you know my latest post is about ObamaCare’s outrageous cost increases of medical care.
I doubt whether one liberal will show up. They are like a plague of locusts. They just leave a path of destruction and they never look back.
@ImNotUglyIJustNeedLove - When called upon to defend their beliefs you mostly get insults or a room full of crickets. Which means that really all they have is a room full of crickets.
@Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex - That’s a sign of deeply ingrained brainwashing I’m very sorry to say.
Our country is being run by maniacs voted into office by their brainwashed hoards.
It’s like Mordor in the Lord of the Rings.
I don’t think the idea is that we should legalize all forms of immigration, but rather that we should deal with the millions of people who are are the children and grandchildren of “illegal” immigrants whose residence was never documented and thus have a hard time proving they’re naturalized citizens, especially when they don’t want to say “see, this is my grandma who’s here illegally and who you’re supposed to deport, that proves I’m a naturalized citizen”. So you have generations of naturalized citizens being essentially forced to live as defacto illegal immigrants without rights or benefits. Not to mention young children who were 1 month old when they were brought here being punished for simply existing. How would you like it if somebody deported you because your mother never filed the right form? Not to mention that it’s not like we got the permission of native americans to live here, so the only reason we’re not all deported is they don’t have the muscle to do it. Similarly we don’t have the muscle to find and deport millions of people, so we should find another solution if only from a practical standpoint.
This of course ignores the fact that “illegal” immigration is simply modern slavery, a way to provide a cheap workforce by making it almost impossible for poor immigrants to come here legally so that when they undoubtedly do (since they literally just have to walk across the border) they provide a vast, cheap workforce with no legal rights, including the right to worker’s compensation, safe working environments, pensions, minimum wage etc. Mexicans are the new niggers. You think slavery was a good system? You think we should’ve kept the cotton industry just like it was?
i’d rather deport the US citizens who are taking advantage of them by hiring them. no one will move here if they know they can’t find a job.
I’m glad to see your getting some good action.
@agnophilo - I taught the children of illegal immigrants. They got a good education.
I taught English to illegal immigrant adults at night. And like 10′s of millions of immigrants who came before them they led a hard life. But they were hardly slaves.
And their standard of living and their liberty here was infinitely better than the Latin American pest hole they escaped from.
@flapper_femme_fatale - I agree. If penalties for trafficking and employing illegal aliens were draconian (like life in prison for the first offense) you’d see the entire issue evaporate and go away.
@ImNotUglyIJustNeedLove - Slaves aren’t paid a living wage and have no rights. Illegal immigrants aren’t paid a living wage and have no rights. By your logic slaves weren’t even slaves because they got room and board and there was probably some hell hole someplace where their life would’ve been worse.
@agnophilo - I saw them live and I saw them have rights.
They invited me to their homes, out to eat and just to visit.
Ya got some kinda mail order bride or something?
@tendollar4ways - I used a website called Shaadi.com, which is the most famous Indian matrimonial site. It is especially useful for Indians in diaspora, who find it difficult to find others of their group in close proximity. There are a few outsiders, such as myself, who go on there because they are interested in having an Indian spouse. Such people typically hold traditional values, and as a result find Indian culture more relatable than their own because there is less of a disparity in values and lifestyle. For someone like me, who doesn’t drink, smoke, have sex, or have any history of divorce in the family, such matches are ideal. On the other hand I would not reccomend it for someone like you, no offense. I was on there for years, but once I had enough money to physically go to India I went there to meet my match. IT was quite an experience. At this point I am waiting on USCIS to finish processing my paperwork, and I am 100% unsympathetic to the illegal immigrants.
@agnophilo - Depending on the situation I might give their kids an option to stay, but certainly not the parents. If they don’t want to break up the family then the whole family can go back. Having kids is actually a strategy they use to be able to stay here and garner sympathy from well intentioned albeit misguided US citizens. They are called anchor babies.
My ancestors all came here legally. My first ancestor to come to the US came in the early 1900′s from Lithuania. He and his wife came on a boat and went through Ellis Island. The Ellis Island workers actually changed our last name to make it sound more English or Americanized. Could you imagine if someone did that with the Mexicans? There would be so many cries of racist and discrimination. The thing is, there is a huge difference in the mentality and quality of the immigrants of the past, and the illegal immigrants of today.
I’m not understanding why you put illegal in quotes, because they are here illegally.
I wouldn’t call it slavery, since they are free to leave any time they want. Also, I don’t see what gives them the right to be here in the first place. They snuck in, just like a burgler sneaks into your house at night to take your stuff. Let them wait in line if they want to come in, but actually, we don’t really have any need of unskilled workers.
OK the Native Americans. Just for the record, we do indeed have the muscle to remove all the illegals, the fact that our government does not want to does not mean we can’t. But I want to ask you something. Do you think it was wrong for the white people to move in and take over from the Native Americans? If so, then is your basis for considering it wrong based on the action of conquest by intrusion, or based on the races of the participants involved?
@flapper_femme_fatale - Good idea, but how about we deport both?
@Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex - Hey…whatever floats your boat. Indian women are quite attractive. I must assume your wife to be is a Christian and not Hindu? Another question….where in GA are you from? I grew up in GA. It has probably chilled these days but when I was there a White dude and a Indian couple woulda turned some heads and angered a few more.
@Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex -
“Depending on the situation I might give
their kids an option to stay, but certainly not the parents.”
Yes, make them orphans, how compassionate.
“If they
don’t want to break up the family then the whole family can go back.
Having kids is actually a strategy they use to be able to stay here and
garner sympathy from well intentioned albeit misguided US citizens.
They are called anchor babies.”
Setting aside that I was talking about children who were brought here after they are born or children who are naturalized citizens but can’t prove it without getting their relatives deported and so do not have the citizenship status, legal rights and benefits they are entitled to by law, an “anchor baby” is a cynical, racist term applied exclusively to mexican immigrants to vilify them for having children. The fact that a naturalized citizen can sponsor a family member for immigration no more makes this a valid or effective strategy or the intent of the parent than it makes every person who gives birth while on a canadian visa a filthy infiltrator trying to sneak past our immigration laws. And second, how can you honestly expect mexican immigrants to apply for citizenship legally if, according to you, it’s quicker to have a baby in the US, go back to mexico, wait 18 years for them to become an adult, then begin the immigration process with a relative as a sponsor? If that’s the fast track to immigration, isn’t the system designed to make it virtually impossible for people to immigrate legally? And if something is in demand and you make it impossible to obtain legally can there be any other result but to make millions of people into criminals?
“My ancestors all came here
legally.”
I doubt that very much. The only way that’s possible is if your ancestors didn’t marry and have kids with anybody who was already here.
“My first ancestor to come to the US came in the early 1900′s
from Lithuania. He and his wife came on a boat and went through Ellis
Island. The Ellis Island workers actually changed our last name to make
it sound more English or Americanized. Could you imagine if someone
did that with the Mexicans? There would be so many cries of racist and
discrimination. The thing is, there is a huge difference in the
mentality and quality of the immigrants of the past, and the illegal
immigrants of today.”
Arbitrarily changing foreign peoples’ names to make them sound american without their consent IS generally considered a racist, crappy thing that people did. I don’t see what that has to do with mexican immigrants though. Someone was racist toward your ancestors so… what, nobody else is the victim of racism?
“I’m not understanding why you put illegal in quotes, because they are here illegally.”
If you have outstanding parking tickets I don’t label you an illegal citizen. We are not in the era of branding criminals, let alone vilifying people for where they happened to be born. While the term is technically accurate it is no more valid to vilify someone and call their whole existence illegal for breaking a law than it would be to do the same to you for jaywalking (which is essentially the same crime, walking where you’re not supposed to).
“I
wouldn’t call it slavery, since they are free to leave any time they
want.”
Sure, I mean they can just pack up the kids and fly off in their private jet. I suppose you would have no problem with the company store either because “hey they can just get different jobs”.
While theoretically possible, it is often not realistic. I’m a natural US citizen and at the jobs available to me right now I would have to save money for a very long time to be able to move anywhere without help, and even then I would have no job waiting for me there so it would be a risk.
“Also, I don’t see what gives them the right to be here in the
first place.”
What gives them the right? We invented the lines on the map, it’s our arbitrary bullshit system. It’s just as arbitrary to say you don’t have a “right” to be here just because. I mean your ancestors were only here a few generations, we could just as easily say the law is that your ancestors have to live here for five generations before their children are US citizens.
“They snuck in, just like a burgler sneaks into your house
at night to take your stuff.”
Yes, by merely being in your proximity brown people are victimizing you, and their mere existence is a threat. You’re not a phobic racist at all.
“Let them wait in line if they want to
come in,”
They can be “waiting in line” for decades. Imagine if it took you 20 years to get permission to go on vacation or immigrate to canada, wouldn’t that be bullshit? That’s how mexicans are treated by the US government.
“but actually, we don’t really have any need of unskilled
workers.”
Yeah I’m sure you had a diploma the second you popped out of your mother’s vagina. And illegals are usually used for construction and farming, both of which are skilled labor.
“OK the Native Americans. Just for the record, we do
indeed have the muscle to remove all the illegals, the fact that our
government does not want to does not mean we can’t.”
We can find, round up and deport tens of millions of people? The agency of immigration and customs enforcement has 15,000 employees, and they also oversee all customs for all shipping into and out of the united states. But even if they dropped all of their other responsibilities there would be almost 500 illegal immigrants for every one agent. Even if we got the entire US military to drop what they’re doing and pitch in they’d still be woefully outnumbered, so no, we don’t have the muscle.
“But I want to ask
you something. Do you think it was wrong for the white people to move
in and take over from the Native Americans? If so, then is your basis
for considering it wrong based on the action of conquest by intrusion,
or based on the races of the participants involved?”
I don’t think what the europeans did was wrong because they moved here, I think what they did was wrong because they exterminated everyone who already lived here. And the point was that I was using your own logic against you, which you ignored.
@Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex - The difference is that immigration officials denied about 300,000 legal requests for immigration from india last year and denied 1.3 million legal requests for immigration from mexico. They approved over 8 percent of the requests from india and under 5 percent of the requests from mexico. Do you think that if twice as many mexicans applied next year they would all magically get approved? They’ve stopped applying because for all but a few it doesn’t work.
@tendollar4ways - A fair assumption. She is a Christian, and way better looking than any of my previous girlfriends. The thing is, I’m not actually from Georgia, I have just been living here for the last 10 years. Most of the time I lived in the Atlanta area, but I also lived in Columbus for a time. Every once in a while I go to Augusta to visit my best friend. We have a lot of black-white interracial mixing (even in backwards Columbus). Also there are Asian-white and mestizo-white and mestizo black pairings. Considering all the more consipicuous forms of race mixing, I don’t think anyone is going to care about me, but even if they did that wouldn’t stop me, because I don’t do or not do things based n what other people think. Most people that I talk about my relationship with think it’s awesome, and they think it’s cool that I went to India. I only ever had one guy give me crap, and it was actually an older black guy that I worked with at a job, and he was saying that I should be loyal to American women. I never asked him what he meant by that, but I didn’t really care enough to find out either. Now when I was over in India I DID get some weird stares, but I don’t really care if anyone wants to hate me for any reason (I spent my childhood being hated by peers), so long as they don’t try to physically do anything. The moment someone physically tries to do anything they will find out how ruthless and unsympathetic I can be.
@agnophilo - I dont care if they don’t get approved. Just because lots of people want to come here doesn’t mean they should. I am going to do an entry on this topic, again. But anyways I read your longer response, and I will have an answer for you soon.
@Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex - I grew up in Gainsville. I prefer Cali now but there are things I loved about GA too.
The word Amnesty is a loaded term. Suppose we labeled your bride’s request to enter into America as a sort of Amnesty?
Basically there is a growing “industry” where people are using marriage as a pretext to get into America. Could I use $10,000 that is offered if I do a sham marriage?
So what would be the problem of a sham marriage? Maybe the children from her previous marriage could get into this country? We do not need more juvenile deliquents in some cases.
@PPhilip - Here is the dictionary definition of Amnesty:
am·nes·ties, verb, am·nes·tied, am·nes·ty·ing.
noun
1.
a general pardon for offenses, especially political offenses, against a government, often granted before any trial or conviction.
2.
Law. an act of forgiveness for past offenses, especially to a class of persons as a whole.
3.
a forgetting or overlooking of any past offense.
verb (used with object)
4.
to grant amnesty to; pardon.
As you can see from the definition, amnesty refers to a pardon for law breakers, which is what the illega immigrants are. The term amnesty has a specific definition which does not apply in my case, and your attempt to draw a connection does not make it so.
There are people who try to marry US citizens as a pretext for getting here, which is why the government takes so long in processing fiance visa and marriage visa cases, and why they demand a good deal of documentation, including proof that you have physically met.
I personally would not touch a woman who already has children, or who was previously married, but if you want to marry such a woman by all means go ahead. There are very few men who will go through the trouble of importing such a woman, so don’t see how your concern is valid, and I do not understand what it is you are trying to argue, or how your comment here addresses the topic at hand.
@tendollar4ways - I don’t think I have ever been to Gainsville. What made you decide to move? Job? Now if I were still living in my original homestate then I might get some stares, but it’s been about 20 years since I last visited there so maybe it has changed.
@Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex - College. Folks moved and I moved with um and went to school and been here ever since.
@tendollar4ways - Same for me.
First off all analogies can not be completely alike. Can you not see this similar comparison?
1. You met your future wife and you are satisfied that she is suitable.
2. Employers met and saw how some “illegal” workers are suitable and would you say that if the employer asked for that particular worker to be granted a work permit would that be amnesty? Basically you would not get a permit for your wife if you never met her personally.
Why the discounting of an “illegal” act makes the final judgement irreconcilable?
@PPhilip - I met my future wife and am following the proper legal procedures rather than trying to smuggle her in.
Employers hire illegal immigrants because they want to pay people less than minimum wage. If they become lawful permanent residents or citizens then they will have to meet the minimum wage requirement for those people, and they will just hire another load of illegals. The illegals did not come in with pending job offers, nor were they legally sponsored (that would be an H1 visa). They broke into the country without permission, like a burgler busting into your house, and took whatever opportunities presented themselves once they arrived.
The comparison is not valid, and your attempts to make it so only make less and less sense. You clearly have no idea of the types of visas that are available, and the type of status they confer, nor do you seem to have any idea about the issues surrounding the debate over amnesty.
@Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex - I believe Microsoft and other legitimate companies have tried to use the student visas and H1 vista as a way to pay people lower wages for jobs that “native” workers could do.
People who apply for work CANNOT BE ILLEGAL in my book. People who are willing to sponsor (whether in marriage or for labor) people are also going to be responsible in keeping those sponsored folks from doing more illegal work.
Basically if “illegal” workers and sponsored wife do no future illegal things they are fine in my book.
IF YOU INSIST THEY DID AN ILLEGAL ACT by coming here that is your perogative. Basically “illegal” is just a way for you to not examine each case. One rule does not fit all, that is where we both disagree and have to move on to stuff like maybe forcing illegal aliens to paying penalties and fines since they broke a law. If they pay fines and penalties then that would technically mean they get no amnesty.
@PPhilip - H1 visas and student visas involve legal immigrants. They still have to get paid the minimum legal wage, and are lawful residents. If you object to those type of scenarios on the grounds that a citizen worker is out of a job then that’s fine, but we aren’t talking about that, we are talking about illegal aliens. Usually when it comes to H1 visas for technical jobs people are bringing them over BECAUSE there is a shortage of qualified citizen workers.
I don’t care about your book, it’s not relevant to anything. We are talking about illegal aliens, which refers to people who cross the border without permission or legal authorization of any kind to enter the country. We aren’t talking about people who have job offers pending, or any other sort of sponsorship, we are talking about border hoppers. The fact that they get a job, for less than minimum wage so that a business can avoid the minium wage requirement, does not change their legal status, or alter the conditions upon which they entered the country.
They are already here illegally, they are already doing an illegal thing.
I don’t insist, I simply state facts, they are here illegally, against US law, and you trying to equate them with legal aliens is not only an invalid analogy by downright insulting, and in poor taste. We aren’t talking about actual cases that were filed, we are talking about those who entered without filing papers. I don’t want them to pay fines and penalties, I want them to get out and move to the back of the line for legal immigration. They have no right to be in the US, and the fact that they broke the law does not mean that they should get special consideration over legal immigrants.
lol…but if we convince you, then your argument will stand wrong.. no ?
@agnophilo - Alright, let’s get down to it.
You do understand what an orphan is yes? It’s an individual whose parents are dead. Deportation does not create orphans, and there is reason why the kids cannot go with them.
We aren’t talking about Canada, stay on topic. Also, facts aren’t racist, and it’s a fact that these people have and use children as an excuse to stay in the US and reap benefits from a system they are not paying into.
“And second, how can you honestly expect mexican immigrants to apply for citizenship legally if, according to you, it’s quicker to have a baby in the US, go back to mexico, wait 18 years for them to become an adult, then begin the immigration process with a relative as a sponsor?”–I never said it was quicker, and I don’t care if it takes them more time to come here or if they can’t get in. It’s not my problem, and I don’t want to pay for it. They don’t get special consideration just because there are lots of them, their country is a craphole, or because they are geographically closer to us than other countries. The reason their country is a craphole is because they made it into one. What I want is armed guards along the border so that they can’t come in to begin with.
“If that’s the fast track to immigration, isn’t the system designed to make it virtually impossible for people to immigrate legally? And if something is in demand and you make it impossible to obtain legally can there be any other result but to make millions of people into criminals?”–That is not a valid argument. I know they want to come here, but that doesn’t make a case for why they should be allowed in. Borders exist for a reason.
“I doubt that very much. The only way that’s possible is if your ancestors didn’t marry and have kids with anybody who was already here.”–My ancestors all came here legally, and I know all the countries from which they came. My great great grandparents on my dad’s side were the first to come. In any case, that’s a rabbit trail, we are talking about US law in determining legality, so I don’t know where you get off saying that only recent immigrants are legal, it’s the illegals who are mostly recent. We are talking about US law, not anything else.
“Arbitrarily changing foreign peoples’ names to make them sound american without their consent IS generally considered a racist, crappy thing that people did. I don’t see what that has to do with mexican immigrants though. Someone was racist toward your ancestors so… what, nobody else is the victim of racism?”–AND you missed my point entirely. My point is that they went through the proper channels, even though they got some crap for it. Everyone else should have to do the same, no exceptions. Also, I don’t think you really understand what racism is. What happened to my ancestor was ethnocentrism, and it happened to a lot of white immigrants from Eastern Europe. Racism is where you dislike people of other races, not people of the same race (even if they have names you can’t pronounce), that is called oikophobia,
“If you have outstanding parking tickets I don’t label you an illegal citizen. We are not in the era of branding criminals, let alone vilifying people for where they happened to be born. While the term is technically accurate it is no more valid to vilify someone and call their whole existence illegal for breaking a law than it would be to do the same to you for jaywalking (which is essentially the same crime, walking where you’re not supposed to).”–Because whether I pay the tickets or not has no bearing on my citizenship. The illegals are not US citizens, and they are not authorized to be here. They broke the law in coming here, and they continue to break the law by being here. It’s not where they were born that makes them criminal, but what they are doing.
“Sure, I mean they can just pack up the kids and fly off in their private jet. I suppose you would have no problem with the company store either because “hey they can just get different jobs”.
While theoretically possible, it is often not realistic. I’m a natural US citizen and at the jobs available to me right now I would have to save money for a very long time to be able to move anywhere without help, and even then I would have no job waiting for me there so it would be a risk.”–They came here in the first place on their own so they can go back the same way they came, and if not then I wouldn’t mind using tax money to deport them. It would be cheaper than supporting them over the long run.
“What gives them the right? We invented the lines on the map, it’s our arbitrary bullshit system. It’s just as arbitrary to say you don’t have a “right” to be here just because. I mean your ancestors were only here a few generations, we could just as easily say the law is that your ancestors have to live here for five generations before their children are US citizens.”–My ancestors came here legally, they became productive citizens, assimilated, didn’t demand any special treatment, and didn’t take anything from the system. But putting that aside, there is a reason why we have borders. The border is not arbitrary, the fact is we live on one side, and a different nation/culture/people group lives on the other. We have our country and they have theirs. I know you think borders are a bad thing and you want one world government (you will be cheering the anti-christ when/if he comes), but riddle me this; if it’s all the same and the border means nothing, then why don’t they stay on their side? Hmm? I could wait for your answer but since you don’t really have one I’ll just go ahead and state it. They come here because their country is a craphole, and because they can get free stuff from our government. The reason why their country is a craphole is because they made it that way. Of course that doesn’t mean that all of them are stupid, some of them are very smart, but guess which ones are crossing our borders illegally in large numbers? The stupid ones.
“They can be “waiting in line” for decades. Imagine if it took you 20 years to get permission to go on vacation or immigrate to canada, wouldn’t that be bullshit? That’s how mexicans are treated by the US government.”–I don’t care. You act like I should welcome them here but you have yet to give me a reason for why I should. The reason they make it hard to get visiting visas is because most of the people applying for a visiting visa would just stay here once they got here. Indians also don’t get visiting visas to come to the US either unless it’s work or family related. Mexicans don’t get special consideration just because they are closer to us geographically.
“Yeah I’m sure you had a diploma the second you popped out of your mother’s vagina. And illegals are usually used for construction and farming, both of which are skilled labor.”–That has no bearing on anything, and for the record, not it is not skilled labor. We don’t need them here, we have an army of domestic people who are out of work. How does bringing in foreign workers ameliorate things for the citizens who are already out of work? The solution is to close the borders, and get the welfare people working those unskilled jobs.
Stop blowing steam, we have police, military, and thanks to Bush and Obama the DHS. Let them earn their keep.
“I don’t think what the europeans did was wrong because they moved here, I think what they did was wrong because they exterminated everyone who already lived here. And the point was that I was using your own logic against you, which you ignored.”–That is simply wrong. They did not exterminate the Native people, the outnumbered them using a steady stream of immigration and high birth rates, gradually pushed them back a little at a time until they were all locked into the reservations. They didn’t take all the land right away, they took it a little at a time under the impetus of growing numbers. I asked you quite simply if you think it was wrong for the white people to take north America over from the Natives, I didn’t ask you if it was wrong for them to move there. It is a simple yes or no question. If you say no, then at least you are consistent in advocating a second invasion/replacement, if you say yes, then you must also object to the invasion/replacement that is happening now.
@locomotiv - huh?
@Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex - sorry maybe i wasn’t clear..nevertheless i am fascinated by your writing…
@locomotiv - Oh OK. Thanks,
@Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex -
“Alright, let’s get down to it. You
do understand what an orphan is yes? It’s an individual whose parents
are dead. Deportation does not create orphans, and there is reason why
the kids cannot go with them.”
Yes and no, there is more than one definition of the term (link). And you’re dodging the issue with wordplay.
“We aren’t talking about Canada, stay
on topic.”
It was a valid comparison, stop dodging.
“Also, facts aren’t racist, and it’s a fact that these people
have and use children as an excuse to stay in the US and reap benefits
from a system they are not paying into.”
“These people”? Yeah, they’re all the same, right? And illegal immigrants often do pay taxes but without being able to collect benefits like social security.
["And second, how can you
honestly expect mexican immigrants to apply for citizenship legally if,
according to you, it's quicker to have a baby in the US, go back to
mexico, wait 18 years for them to become an adult, then begin the
immigration process with a relative as a sponsor?"]
“–I never said it was
quicker,”
You said it was a common (if not universal) strategy. Why would it be if it was not quicker?
“and I don’t care if it takes them more time to come here or if
they can’t get in. It’s not my problem,”
So you’re a selfish asshole. Okay. Glad we got that squared away.
“and I don’t want to pay for
it.”
Nobody’s asking you to. If a million people come to the US and get jobs there aren’t less jobs to go around because that’s a million more people buying products and services which creates as many new jobs. And there isn’t less tax revenue because that’s a million more people paying taxes. The idea that someone being of hispanic means they’re somehow automatically robbing you is racist and ignorant.
“They don’t get special consideration just because there are lots of
them, their country is a craphole, or because they are geographically
closer to us than other countries.”
It doesn’t matter, if you ban something that’s in demand it only creates a new criminal enterprise.
“The reason their country is a
craphole is because they made it into one.”
Actually it has more to do with geography than anything. The US is rich because we have vast amounts of exploitable natural resources, precious metals, huge oil beds, coal-filled mountains and the great planes, a vast, flat area of fertile land in the middle of the country perfect for growing crops. Whereas mexico is mostly desert and mountains so there is no cornerstone on which to base a strong economy.
Or we could go with your theory that brown people are just inferior to white people.
“What I want is armed guards
along the border so that they can’t come in to begin with.”
So you don’t want to “pay for” a brown kid to go to school, but you have no problem spending billions to shoot them if they try to improve their standard of living? OMG I think jesus just came back and his name is ambrosius-augustus-rex!
["If
that's the fast track to immigration, isn't the system designed to make
it virtually impossible for people to immigrate legally? And if
something is in demand and you make it impossible to obtain legally can
there be any other result but to make millions of people into
criminals?"--]
“That is not a valid argument. I know they want to come
here, but that doesn’t make a case for why they should be allowed in.
Borders exist for a reason.”
Why is that exactly? And it was a good enough argument for repealing prohibition. That the prescription is worse than the disease and doesn’t actually cure it is a perfectly valid point to bring up.
“My ancestors all came here legally, and I
know all the countries from which they came. My great great
grandparents on my dad’s side were the first to come. In any case,
that’s a rabbit trail, we are talking about US law in determining
legality, so I don’t know where you get off saying that only recent
immigrants are legal, it’s the illegals who are mostly recent. We are
talking about US law, not anything else.”
So all of your ancestors were imported? None of them married any one who was not a first generation immigrant?
“AND you missed my point entirely. My point is that they
went through the proper channels, even though they got some crap for
it. Everyone else should have to do the same, no exceptions. Also, I
don’t think you really understand what racism is. What happened to my
ancestor was ethnocentrism, and it happened to a lot of white immigrants
from Eastern Europe. Racism is where you dislike people of other
races, not people of the same race (even if they have names you can’t
pronounce), that is called oikophobia,”
I don’t know what your or your ancestors’ ethnicity or the ethnicity of the people who changed their names was, but yes technically that would be ethnocentrism or some other ism. Do you think it’s okay that their names were changed without their consent? You seem to be saying that if your ancestors were shit on everyone should be shit on.
“Because whether I pay the tickets or not has no bearing on my
citizenship. The illegals are not US citizens, and they are not
authorized to be here. They broke the law in coming here, and they
continue to break the law by being here. It’s not where they were born
that makes them criminal, but what they are doing.”
So someone who has been in the US from infancy and this is the only home they have ever known is the moral equivalent to a prowler or a mugger?
“They
came here in the first place on their own so they can go back the same
way they came, and if not then I wouldn’t mind using tax money to deport
them. It would be cheaper than supporting them over the long run.”
Again the “I don’t want my tax dollars to help a brown person” mantra is bullshit because you don’t mind at all your tax dollars going to harm them. In fact you’re just itching for your tax dollars to be spent keeping people out of the country (as established before, so long as they’re poor and non-white – nobody’s proposing a border wall with armed guards on the canadian border).
“My ancestors came here legally, they became
productive citizens, assimilated, didn’t demand any special treatment,
and didn’t take anything from the system. But putting that aside, there
is a reason why we have borders. The border is not arbitrary, the fact
is we live on one side, and a different nation/culture/people group
lives on the other. We have our country and they have theirs.”
So it’s about ethnic and cultural segregation. I’m not afraid of people who are not the same as me.
“I know
you think borders are a bad thing and you want one world government”
No, I just don’t think compassion should be reserved for rich white people.
“(you
will be cheering the anti-christ when/if he comes),”
The left behind series is fiction, not prophecy. And lousy fiction at that.
“but riddle me this;
if it’s all the same and the border means nothing, then why don’t they
stay on their side? Hmm?”
An invisible line on the map doesn’t exist, but what we build around that line does exist.
“I could wait for your answer but since you
don’t really have one I’ll just go ahead and state it. They come here
because their country is a craphole, and because they can get free stuff
from our government.”
Yes, all brown people are moochers. And niggers are lazy. And you know jews just want to control all the money and start wars. Heil hitler!
“The reason why their country is a craphole is
because they made it that way. Of course that doesn’t mean that all of
them are stupid, some of them are very smart, but guess which ones are
crossing our borders illegally in large numbers? The stupid ones.”
Yeah because americans are all geniuses.
["They
can be "waiting in line" for decades. Imagine if it took you 20 years
to get permission to go on vacation or immigrate to canada, wouldn't
that be bullshit? That's how mexicans are treated by the US
government."]
“–I don’t care.”
Yeah, I get that. You only care about yourself. If it took your wife 20 years to get to the US I bet you’d care then.
“You act like I should welcome them here but
you have yet to give me a reason for why I should.”
You’re right. Fuck immigrants, we shouldn’t let them in. Hell lets go one step further and deport all the people who came here in the past and their kids. Lets start with you. Unless you can give me a good reason you should be allowed to live here and have a nice life. Justify your existence.
“The reason they
make it hard to get visiting visas is because most of the people
applying for a visiting visa would just stay here once they got here.”
Normally you get a visa then work here as a path to citizenship. If you don’t let people do that they’ll do what they have to.
“Indians also don’t get visiting visas to come to the US either unless
it’s work or family related. Mexicans don’t get special consideration
just because they are closer to us geographically.”
They get less consideration, as you just pointed out.
["Yeah I'm
sure you had a diploma the second you popped out of your mother's
vagina. And illegals are usually used for construction and farming,
both of which are skilled labor."--]
“That has no bearing on anything,”
Yes, it does. You just don’t like to deal with peoples’ arguments.
“and
for the record, not it is not skilled labor.”
So then lets deport all the millions of people in those sectors of our economy who are US citizens – they’re just leeching dead weight, right?
“We don’t need them here,
we have an army of domestic people who are out of work. How does
bringing in foreign workers ameliorate things for the citizens who are
already out of work? The solution is to close the borders, and get the
welfare people working those unskilled jobs.”
Unemployment goes down as demand for products and services increases and companies are forced to hire more workers – demand increases the more people there are. Immigration doesn’t stunt economic growth or shrink the middle class – other things like lowering the minimum wage through inflation and letting the cost of basics like healthcare and education skyrocket does.
“Stop blowing steam, we have police, military, and thanks to Bush and Obama the DHS. Let them earn their keep.”
Bush created the DHS not obama.
“That is simply wrong. They did not
exterminate the Native people”
Yes, they did. Are you kidding me? Remember the whole generals fighting wars with the native americans, custer, paying bounties for scalps etc? Any of this ringing a bell?
“the outnumbered them using a steady
stream of immigration and high birth rates, gradually pushed them back a
little at a time until they were all locked into the reservations.”
I think constantly killing them with more advanced weaponry helped too.
“They didn’t take all the land right away, they took it a little at a
time under the impetus of growing numbers.”
They didn’t out-screw the native americans, they slaughtered them. When mexicans start scalping white people then we’ll talk.
“I asked you quite simply if
you think it was wrong for the white people to take north America over
from the Natives, I didn’t ask you if it was wrong for them to move
there. It is a simple yes or no question. If you say no, then at least
you are consistent in advocating a second invasion/replacement, if you
say yes, then you must also object to the invasion/replacement that is
happening now.”
We aren’t being “invaded” any more than a black person moving in next door makes your backyard the front lines of a war. That is your paranoid, racist attitude, not what is actually happening. Do you think immigrants want a better life or want to destroy yours?
Your fear is unfounded and irrational.
@agnophilo - If you want me to take you seriously, then you had better learn to stop being deliberately obtuse. It is a horrible rhetorical strategy, and it is why so many people have blocked you.
In order to make someone an orphan you must kill their parents, end of story. If you are against separating the parents from the kids then the kids can be deported with the parents. These people are taking advantage of lax border security and the system we have here, and that is unacceptable.
“You said it was a common (if not universal) strategy. Why would it be if it was not quicker?”–I said they were having kids so that they could STAY here, not so that they could use their kids to petition for visas. Stop trying to put words in my mouth and read what I actually said.
It’s not my problem. I’m already poor, and I resent having my money taken away to support someone else’s kids. If I HAVE money I can give money, but I hardly have anything, and the government takes away a huge chunk of what I do have.
“Actually it has more to do with geography than anything. The US is rich because we have vast amounts of exploitable natural resources, precious metals, huge oil beds, coal-filled mountains and the great planes, a vast, flat area of fertile land in the middle of the country perfect for growing crops. Whereas mexico is mostly desert and mountains so there is no cornerstone on which to base a strong economy.
Or we could go with your theory that brown people are just inferior to white people.”–So do lots of other countries, but not everyone develops their resources properly, which is their own fault. Any anyways those are OUR resources. If anyone else wants to have access to them then the have to earn it. No one is etitled to something that belongs to someone else just because they exist.
“Yes, all brown people are moochers. And niggers are lazy. And you know jews just want to control all the money and start wars. Heil hitler!”–You are a complete idiot, and the sad thing is you think you are smart, but you are actually a hairs breath away from getting blocked from my page. Either you be sensible, or you get off my page for good.
“Yeah because americans are all geniuses.”–Oh no, we have our share of idiots (welfare people, Obama voters), my point is that we don’t need any more of them.
“So all of your ancestors were imported? None of them married any one who was not a first generation immigrant?”–In fact they were all recent immigrants, who did not start coming untl the early 1900′s. But I don’t see the pertinence of your point. What difference does it make when they came? Illegal aliens are defined by US law. Prior to the laws being laid down no one would have been an illegal alien. Just because you are an anchor baby does not mean that everyone else is.
“I don’t know what your or your ancestors’ ethnicity or the ethnicity of the people who changed their names was, but yes technically that would be ethnocentrism or some other ism. Do you think it’s okay that their names were changed without their consent? You seem to be saying that if your ancestors were shit on everyone should be shit on.”–I am saying I have no smpathy for the illegals and that theyhave no grounds to bellyache or make demands.
If you have so much compassion then give your own money, not mine. Yes we have countries for a reason. Letting the entire 3rd world flood in here is only going to bring us down, not bring them up. Money doesn’t grow on trees. Someone has to earn it. If the US becomes full of the 3rd world then it will be a 3rd world country, and just as backwards and full of depredations as any other 3rd world hellhole. Get ready for mass poverty, genital mutilation of women, acid burning, wife beating, rape, theft, and severe overcrowding, as well as dirty water and toilets that don’t work. Also, a lot of the 3rd world is Islamic, so get ready for Sharia. I mean, are you really serious with that one world no borders crap or is that an attempt to be trollish and monopolize my time?
Simple, my ancestors came here legally, while theres (an probably yours) did not. Also, we are all productive citizens. But if we are going to deport recent immigrants, then you are going first anchor baby.
The illegals are not citizens and have no legal or moral right to be here. Deporting them is entirely acceptable and is in fact a matter of law enforcement. We can then place our welfare citizens in the jobs vacated by those people. This is really quite simple. Why you cannot understand is beyond me.
Unemployment does not go down if the jobs are staffed with foreign workers. You really are amazing.
“”Stop blowing steam, we have police, military, and thanks to Bush and Obama the DHS. Let them earn their keep.”
Bush created the DHS not obama.”–I never said Obama invented DHS, you even quoted me. Again I’m amazed.
“Yes, they did. Are you kidding me? Remember the whole generals fighting wars with the native americans, custer, paying bounties for scalps etc? Any of this ringing a bell?”–I have 2 history degrees, so of course I know what happened. Paying bounties for scalps was prior to the American revolution, and after the revolution the Native Americans did most of the scalping. Yes there were wars with Native Americans, but none of them resulted in extermination, they did however result in forced relocation which eventually culminated in the reservation system. White people took hundreds of years to finish spreading their hegemony over North America, and about 100 after the American Revolution when the US came into existence. The reason they were able to do that is superior numbers. Yes they did pop out babies quicker than Native Americans, but their ranks were also vastly bolstered by mass immigration from Europe. At first the majorty of immigration came from western Europe, but later it came primarly from Eastern Europe. Today it comes primarily from Mexico and the rest of the 3rd world, and there is a reason why they attempt to restrict the numbers. Our economy can only sustain so many unskilled workers, especially if they aren’t working.
If you think they are not an invasion then you need to look up “La Raza” and all that talk about Aztlan. Seriously, a little awareness goes a long way.
Black people are already citizens of this country, and have been here for as long as white people have. It’s not an invasion when citizens move into different neighborhoods, it is an invasion when foreigners stream in against our consent in mass numbers and start demanding things.